Joan Rivers Show: Carolyn Durrell (1990)

Director: The Joan Rivers Show
Release Year: 1990

The 1990 episode of The Joan Rivers Show, titled "Transexual Marriage," featured a groundbreaking and candid interview with Carolyn Durrell (also known as Carol Durell) and her husband, Bob. The conversation addressed complex issues surrounding gender identity, sexual orientation, and transsexual marriage, offering viewers an intimate glimpse into the lives of a couple whose relationship defied societal norms and expectations. The episode is a rare, raw exploration of transsexuality, offering personal insights into the challenges and experiences of a transgender woman and her heterosexual husband.

 

The segment began with Joan Rivers’ signature humor and frankness, warning the audience about the sexual nature of the upcoming discussion. Joan introduced Carolyn and Bob, emphasizing that the couple’s relationship was based on a great sex life, despite the fact that Carolyn had transitioned from male to female. Joan quickly acknowledged that Carolyn’s sex change was widely known to their neighbors, setting the stage for a conversation that would tackle sensitive and underexplored topics about transsexuality and intimate relationships. Carolyn’s transition was central to the conversation, but the focus quickly shifted to the unique dynamics of their marriage. The couple had been married for about a year at the time of the interview, having met through mutual friends at a club where Carolyn was performing. Bob, a performer himself, had not known about Carolyn’s past when they first encountered each other, setting the stage for a delicate reveal. 

 

The pivotal moment of the interview occurred when Joan asked Bob, whose face was hidden from the cameras, when he discovered Carolyn’s transsexual history. Bob shared a revealing account of the moment he learned the truth, describing how Carolyn, after a show performance, confided in him about her past. He admitted that it made him pause, though his initial apprehension did not prevent him from continuing to develop feelings for her. Bob explained that, as he got to know Carolyn better, he found himself drawn to her beyond her gender history. This marked the beginning of a deeper emotional connection, further solidifying their bond. When Joan asked if he had ever been in a homosexual relationship, Bob confirmed he had not. This acknowledgment added another layer to the conversation, highlighting the tension many might feel when navigating the complexities of sexual orientation and attraction to a transgender partner. Despite this, Bob’s genuine admiration for Carolyn’s personality and character was a key theme throughout the discussion. 

 

Joan Rivers, known for her candidness and humor, asked Carolyn several personal questions to better understand her experience as a transgender individual. When Joan inquired about Carolyn’s experiences as a boy, Carolyn opened up about her childhood, describing how she had always felt like a girl even though she was physically male. She rejected the notion of "being a woman trapped in a man’s body," a common phrase in transgender discourse, instead explaining that she believed she was born female with an unusually large clitoris. This perspective challenged stereotypes about transgender individuals and added a layer of complexity to the conversation around gender identity. Carolyn reflected on the harsh bullying she experienced as a child, noting how classmates and even teachers treated her differently, often calling her names and making her feel isolated. This was a critical moment in the interview as it highlighted the pain and difficulties faced by those who do not conform to traditional gender expectations. 

 

The conversation took a more medical turn when Joan asked Carolyn about the details of her sex-change operation. Carolyn recounted the long and expensive process of transitioning, which had spanned several years and cost approximately $200,000. She explained the various stages of her transformation, including breast augmentation and genital reassignment surgery. Although Joan's questions were frank - asking about the pain involved in the transition - Carolyn's responses were refreshingly nonchalant. She shared that she did not experience significant pain following her surgery, despite the intensity of the procedure, which lasted seven and a half hours. Carolyn’s calm demeanor as she discussed the intimate details of her transition was striking, especially as she described the process of creating a new body, one that would align more closely with her true gender identity. She also expressed pride in her physical transformation, emphasizing that she was now fully functional as a woman and enjoying a fulfilling sex life. The conversation about orgasms was particularly memorable when Carolyn disclosed that she had experienced multiple orgasms, underscoring her satisfaction and the success of her transition. 

 

Joan also delved into the impact Carolyn’s transition had on her family and how they had reacted. Bob explained that his children, who were initially taken aback by the news of his marriage to a transgender woman, had come to accept Carolyn as part of their family. Carolyn herself had also been married before and had four children, and she was now a grandmother with nine grandchildren. The couple’s ability to maintain positive family relationships despite the unconventional nature of their union was a testament to the strength of their connection and their families' open-mindedness. The issue of legal recognition was another topic explored. Joan asked Carolyn if she had been able to change her birth certificate to reflect her gender, and Carolyn confirmed that she had been able to do so in her home state. This legal affirmation of her gender identity was a significant milestone for Carolyn, and it also made her marriage to Bob legally valid, which was an important consideration in their relationship. 

 

The interview also emphasized the depth of the emotional bond between Carolyn and Bob, transcending the physical or societal expectations of their relationship. Bob described his attraction to Carolyn as rooted in her soul and character, rather than merely her physical appearance. He shared that, while her past had made him think, the connection they shared emotionally was more important than her gender history. Joan Rivers, known for her humor, often lightened the conversation with witty remarks, but her genuine curiosity and respect for the couple’s story were evident throughout. She ended the interview with admiration for the Durrells, acknowledging the uniqueness of their relationship and wishing them continued happiness. 

 

The interview with Carolyn and Bob Durrell on The Joan Rivers Show offered a rare and nuanced perspective on transsexuality, marriage, and identity in the early 1990s. It provided viewers with a candid and compassionate look at a relationship that defied societal conventions and challenged the audience to reconsider preconceived notions about love, attraction, and gender. Joan Rivers’ mix of humor and sensitivity allowed Carolyn and Bob to share their personal journey, demonstrating that genuine connection and love can flourish regardless of gender history. This segment remains an important part of media history for its role in normalizing and humanizing the experiences of transgender individuals and their relationships.

 

via: youtube

Image credits: YouTube